Hatred is a difficult emotion to sustain as a reason to act or not act, but the fringe-left whack jobs over at the hate site C3G2 have mastered it beautifully.
They have 2 main purposes, and neither have anything to do with "good governance." In fact, the name itself is a lie: the entire purpose of that page is to take out two Republicans... and then to infect the charter movement with ways to reduce theses commissioner's ability to govern in hopes of finding ways to overturn the lawful election of 2012.
Many... most... all, perhaps? Were rabid fans of the PP Boys (Pollard and Pridemore) and their idiotic, rather petulant effort to find an excuse to launch a recall. Read the various threads on that hate site, and you find it mentioned, even now, occasionally. But that goes to the heart of the matter: hatred. Hatred of Madore, hatred of Mielke and hatred of Benton. A nest of political bigotry not seen since the halcyon days of the democratian's opposition to the anti-CRC movement.
The hate is obvious. The chronic disrespect they exhibit over there is pure partisanship and political bigotry.
For example, former Ridgefield city councilman David Standahl, a conservative, recently dropped in over there to check it out.
And man... did the hatred flow.
It flows, because even though the expressed aims of the group are to
The ONLY citizens they want involved are those who well join in their hatred of Madore and Mielke.
As for the rest, no one cares.
And here's the thread from their page that proves it. Hatred reeks. Hatred of those who don't agree with their perspective, reeks.
This thread is long, but worth the read. Because it shows the true spirit of their page and the true purpose for existence.
For example, Steve Lappier wrongly calls Standahl a liar, claiming that:
He didn't modify his position. He didn't acknowledge Standahl's proof that he, Lappier, was flat wrong and no one else came to David's defense over that issue.
Everyone who trashed David in the thread, Standahl OR Madore, is well aware of what Chuck Green ONCE AGAIN "reminded them" of. But one wonders: when they "forget" what the page is SUPPOSED to be there for, what happens to them?
Do they get banned? Do they get called out, other than a rather nebulous restatement of what they already knew but ignore as a matter of course?
Of course not.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Don't misunderstand me: they have every right to be a fringe-left nutjob group of haters. Freedom of speech is not an arcane concept to me, a blogger with over 5000 posts over the past several years.
The basic dishonesty of their page, however, is clear. The ONLY people they're looking at are Madore, Mielke and Benton. None of the three of them have EVER done anything right of any kind, if this page is to be believed, because this page has never acknowledged anything that HAS gone right.
This is not about good governance, it's about partisan governance. And it's unfortunate that these people lack the integrity to admit it.
They have 2 main purposes, and neither have anything to do with "good governance." In fact, the name itself is a lie: the entire purpose of that page is to take out two Republicans... and then to infect the charter movement with ways to reduce theses commissioner's ability to govern in hopes of finding ways to overturn the lawful election of 2012.
Many... most... all, perhaps? Were rabid fans of the PP Boys (Pollard and Pridemore) and their idiotic, rather petulant effort to find an excuse to launch a recall. Read the various threads on that hate site, and you find it mentioned, even now, occasionally. But that goes to the heart of the matter: hatred. Hatred of Madore, hatred of Mielke and hatred of Benton. A nest of political bigotry not seen since the halcyon days of the democratian's opposition to the anti-CRC movement.
The hate is obvious. The chronic disrespect they exhibit over there is pure partisanship and political bigotry.
For example, former Ridgefield city councilman David Standahl, a conservative, recently dropped in over there to check it out.
And man... did the hatred flow.
It flows, because even though the expressed aims of the group are to
• Raise public awareness• Monitor government activities• Promote citizen involvement• Encourage the stewardship of human and environmental resources.The only monitoring these clowns bother to do are with the Board of Commissioners. The only "public awareness" they want to "raise" is of their fringe-left hatred of Commissioner Madore primarily and Commissioner Mielke secondarily.
The ONLY citizens they want involved are those who well join in their hatred of Madore and Mielke.
As for the rest, no one cares.
And here's the thread from their page that proves it. Hatred reeks. Hatred of those who don't agree with their perspective, reeks.
This thread is long, but worth the read. Because it shows the true spirit of their page and the true purpose for existence.
Chuck Green may even believe what he wrote. But the political bigotry expressed in that thread clearly shows that the ONLY definition of "Good governance" that will be tolerated is that of the fringe-leftist infesting the page.I must be naive'... I thought this page was about good governance. I like David Madore.April 15 at 1:46pm · Like · 2
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Steve Lappier In life there are things called details. You made a statement, back it up. Why do you think like minded people talking about their local government is bad? If you support Mr. Madore and think the CCCGG is wrong, tell us why. That's how it works. By the way, do you support Mr. Madore banning people from his public FB page because they disagree with him?
April 15 at 1:55pm · Like · 5
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Rachel Richardson Niten You can like Mr. Madore all you wish. I've shook his had twice in my lifetime, and he's always very pleasant, but that doesn't mean he practices "good governance."
April 15 at 2:04pm · Like · 13
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Nick Ruark David Standal - Welcome to C3G2! This group is an opportunity to hear 'the rest of the story', so to speak, not just about Mr. Madore, but about other aspects of 'good governance' in Clark County that you most likely will NOT see on his page. I hope you'll stick around awhile and share your thoughts with us as different perspectives are actually welcomed and appreciated here.
April 15 at 2:13pm · Like · 9
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David Alonzo I take your comment as satire.
April 15 at 2:54pm · Like · 1
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David Standal Steve, I did NOT say "like minded people talking about their local government is bad", of course it is not. Free expression is never wrong.
April 15 at 3:29pm · Like · 2
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Loren Lee David Standal@@so what does good governance look like from your perspective since you brought it up, right?
April 15 at 3:49pm · Like · 1
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Chuck Green David Standal: you rascal you! Are you trying to stir things up countywide again ??? Haven't seen you at Ridgefield Council in awhile. I'm planning to go on the 24th since it's the first Council meeting with the new City Manager. What was his name again? Stu somebody or other?
April 15 at 4:01pm · Like · 2
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David Standal I'll be there to welcome Steve. I like Steve Stuart, too.
April 15 at 7:44pm · Like · 1
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David Standal My experience tells me to have patience, politically. Don't let your passions rule the day. Always argue for your viewpoints publicly, don't be afraid to be called names and don't hate those you disagree with.
April 15 at 7:53pm · Like · 4
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Loren Lee David Standal@@your comments ring true for the most part about having patience politically and not letting your passions rule the day. What do you think David Madore's response would be if you shared this advise with him and illustrate where he might be falling a little short of your standard?
April 15 at 8:28pm · Edited · Like · 2
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David Standal I don't know him as well as many here seem to...
April 15 at 8:51pm · Like
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Michele Wollert David Standal I appreciate your comments, especially about not letting your passions rule the day. I must say that holding elected officials accountable and disagreeing with their decisions does not mean we hate them. I hear that often from a variety of politicians' supporters: you hate her or him because you don't agree with them. I have engaged Mr. Madore in respectful dialogue and am seriously worried about Clark County's future under his so-called leadership. But I and many others here do not hate the man.
April 16 at 4:27am · Like · 4
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David Standal It's a tactic used by many politicos I have known... to personalize your opposition as a means to discredit and ignore complaints.
April 16 at 7:33am · Like · 1
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Loren Lee David Standal@@based on your comment that started this thread...just what is it about David Madore that you like and how does that relate to good governance here in Clark County or not?
April 16 at 10:45am · Like · 1
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David Standal Number one reason... He opposed the CRC. I don't consider it good governance to build a mega-project like that just to get light rail to Vancouver against the expressed wishes of the voters.
April 16 at 1:04pm · Unlike · 3
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Steve Lappier David - They're were not going to build a bridge "just to get light rail to Vancouver." Part of the federal funding required that. Your statement is false.
April 16 at 1:39pm · Like · 5
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Chuck Green Since I'm involved with the federal (FTA) process for the BRT project, I'd like to clarify a common misconception here. The FTA did not require light rail to be part of the CRC project. That was a local decision (called a "Locally Preferred Alternative" or LPA). That decision was made by a compendium of local and regional governments including ODOT, WSDOT, RTC, C-TRAN, Metro, etc. FTA's role is to make sure the Alternatives Analysis and environmental study processes were followed, and FTA's role is to also evaluate (rate) the CRC's LRT component based on that LPA decision. FTA also oversaw whether the CRC project complied with federal regulations regarding New Starts (the pot of federal money that was tapped to build LRT), but in no way did they tell the CRC or the local agencies that it was LRT or nothing. There are other modes (BRT, for one) also eligible for this New Starts money. What the Governor of Oregon said, however, was that since the LPA committed to LRT, the only way Oregon would accept this project is that it needed to maintain the LRT component. No Oregon commitment, no project. And, as we found out, no Washington commitment, no project.
April 16 at 4:41pm · Like · 6
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David Standal http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-18881-the_%2425_billion_bribe.html...
April 16 at 8:51pm · Unlike · 1
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Bill Baumann David: you always seemed a reasonable man on the Ridgefield Council... so I'm wondering what your reasons number 2-10 are?
April 17 at 8:44am · Like
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Hector Hinojosa Unfortunate that CRC didn't make it. Worse is that we will not have LRT any time soon. One of the best things for this county is comprehensive public transportation.
April 17 at 8:51am · Like · 8
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David Standal Thanks Bill. Any other reasons don't matter to me.
April 17 at 6:03pm · Like · 1
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Bill Baumann There's a lot more to leading a county than deep-sixing a bridge replacement project.
April 17 at 7:18pm · Edited · Like · 5
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Ron Goodman This group, for it is not a page of one-way discourse as Facebook normally defines it, but a group fostering mulit-lateral communication, is about good governance; what does 'liking David Madore' have to do with good governance? That's about as relevant as saying 'I thought this page was about good governance. I like Jello. It's a non-sequitur.
While there is a lot of passion displayed here, and a fair share of humor tinged with pathos, there is usually logic associated with what is posted.
April 17 at 10:33pm · Like · 4
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David Standal But calling him Madoof produces positive discourse? Fecal colored glasses? I don't agree with the hiring of Don Benton.
April 18 at 1:48pm · Like
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Ron Goodman I rarely respond twice to a baiting comment or question, but here goes. Irony and satire are the catharsis for the withering pathos generated by Madore's hypocrisy, deeply polarizing influence and tactics, and the decimation of a talented and highly-skilled leadership corps in Clark County government.
He repeatedly mouths platitudes he fails to honor himself, such as "I shall not seek to censor anyone from speaking their mind on any issue. Any attempt to do so would be a form of oppression and tyranny that I strongly oppose." David Madore, The Columbian, Nov 28, 2011
Those are his words, but in practice, he constructively censored dozens at the May 7 public hearing, by voting with Mielke to move public comment from its usual place in the agenda to after midnight, when hundreds turned out to oppose the Benton hire while only 5-10 showed up in support. He then lobbied at the next board time meeting to try to make the change permanent, but even Tom Mielke knew that was wrong. He has censored dozens on his Public Facebook profile where he solicits comment on county matters but banishes those who steadfastly oppose his thinking under the pretext of 'civility,' but the comments aren't uncivil, only inimical to his cherished ideology.
There may not be a more polarizing person in our community, which reflects more of the hypocrisy of the man who preaches we should use our Freedom of Speech to bring our community together and also stated “Once a policy is set, the time to campaign against it is over," and public employees such as Don Benton shouldn't be attacked. This is the same guy who impugns the character of everyone on the opposite sides of votes, defaming fellow elected officials and public employees with wanton charges of corruption, double-dealing, and deception.The fights he's waged with his self-generated foes are legion: C-Tran, Regional Transportation Council, City of Vancouver, Vancouver/Clark Parks and Recreation, The Columbia River Economic Development Council, the Southwest Washington Humane Society, The Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce and Chambers throughout Clark County including Woodland, The Coast Guard, Jeff Hamm, Thomas Wolfendale, Ron Onslow, Kelly Parker-Love, Melissa Smith, Tim Leavitt, Steve Stuart, Bill Barron, Kevin Gray, on and on. It is inconceivable that someone who has to have the support of other officials in order to move anything forward can't stop himself from attacking all of them, even his main ally Tom Mielke. When the Advisory Votes first came up he advised all his followers to oppose Mielke's West-Side Bridge Advisory and support his East Side Bridge.
“Your employees fear you,” said Rekah Strong. “They’re not engaged. They’re operating in a place of paralysis. You have a lawsuit that is filed against you (by a current county employee) for going against our (equal employment opportunity) practices and what we’ve committed ourselves to do for the past six years. … We’ve had a mass exodus of employees because people are fearful.”
Bill Barron, former county administrator;
Glenn Olson, former deputy county administrator;
John Wiesman, former director of public health;
Marni Storey, former deputy director of public health;
Kevin Gray, former director of environmental services;
Jim Dickman, former budget director;
Pete Capell, former director of public works;
Bronson Potter, former chief civil deputy prosecuting attorney;
Kelly Sills, former economic development manager;
Steve Stuart, former county commissioner.
Then there is an abundance of regrettable policy moves:
* Hiring Don Benton outside the normal civil service hiring process;
* Mixing religion and politics with invocations on the public hearing agenda - the commissioners are free to pray with someone in their office or conference room before the meeting starts, if it means that much to them, but if it truly meant that much, and they needed guidance before important decisions, they would have invocations before board time, too, but the cameras aren't rolling then, and the audience is very small. Mean,while, the Economic Development Manager had to spend his time drawing up guidelines, drafting invitations, putting together lists, scheduling, instead of working on Economic Development, a far more important priorityP
* Eliminating revenue streams from parking fees, building permits, and traffic impact fees
* Reneging on the contract with the CREDC
* Reneging on the contract with the Humane Society, while engaging in a drawn out 'yes, we will; no, we won't' cat and mouse game
* Reneging on payments to the local Chambers
* Blowing up the inter-local agreement with Vancouver that created the Vancouver/Clark Parks and Recreation program
* Engaging in a protracted process to 'define Integrity' over three or more meetings, and then expending significant staff time assembling and mailing 341 'Integrity Packets' most of which were likely round-filed
* The abortive county concealed-carry policy
* Squandering money and political capital on meaningless, non-binding, advisory votes
* Meddling in Vancouver, Ridgefield, Battle Ground, and Camas municipal races
* Stifling the 'will of the voters' on an enacted state initiative on Recreational Marijuana
* Scapegoating employees when things go wrong instead of taking personal responsibility, then exacerbating the harm with 'open letters' and Facebook posts publicly shaming the scapegoated employees
* Altering staff reports, then refusing to own up to the act
* Altering public records and public Web pages inappropriately
* Expending limited time and resources on resolutions and other items concerning activities totally outside the scope of county authority
* Committing county resources to an impossible East County Bridge.
* Killing the Watershed Stewards program
* Policy by pique: banning the Columbian from lobby coffee tables; divesting the Columbian of the public record advertising; proposing a 'litter tax' on the Columbian
Irony and satire are a soothing salve for the pain of a county bleeding from a thousand cuts.
Yesterday at 1:33am · Like · 10
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Michele Wollert Ron Goodman I am keeping a copy of your comprehensive summary above, lest I forget. It should be read by us all on a regular basis as a reminder and motivator: the voters need to send Mr. Madore back to the private sector for good.
Yesterday at 4:45am · Like · 3
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David Standal With t
Yesterday at 8:45am · Like
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David Standal Your complaints sound like inside baseball. If the county is as messed up by Madore as you say, he will be easy to defeat in the next election.
Yesterday at 8:49am · Like
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Steve Lappier Mr. Standal - You are doing a one-way conversation. You've been asked what about Mr. Madore you don't agree with, and I've asked you if you support his banning people on his public FB page. Since you want to discuss things here, respond to questions to you, or, go away.
Yesterday at 9:02am · Like
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David Standal I will not be bullied. You can ban me if you like. I have not engaged in any name calling, like others on this page. You can assign to me motives I don't have and make demands of me, but I will not be intimidated.
Yesterday at 4:10pm · Unlike · 1
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Ron Goodman Pissin' in the wind, bettin' on a losing friend
Makin' the same mistakes, we swore we'd never make again
And we're pissin' in the wind, but it's blowing on all our friends
We're gonna sit and grin and tell our grandchildren
-- Jerry Jeff Walker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZDBXm11WXY
Jerry Jeff Walker - Pissin' In The Wind
Yesterday at 4:15pm · Edited · Like · 1
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Jerry Jeffrey What do we expect from a troll that has David Madore, Debby Peterson. Christian Berrigan, Robert Dean, Kelly Hinton and Lew Waters listed as his friends? Just ignore the troll
Yesterday at 4:25pm · Like
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David Standal So you have confirmed what I thought. This is not a place for open rational discussion. If I don't agree with everyone here... I'm a troll. After reading the About section, I got the impression there would be policy discussions, left, right, center.
Yesterday at 4:33pm · Unlike · 1
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David Standal I am naive'. Out.
Yesterday at 4:34pm · Unlike · 1
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Hector Hinojosa David Standal, you have not been banned, but you certainly have not told us much of your opinion other than you like David Madore. Not much to go on or get a sense of what your base that opinion upon. So come back when you actually want to discuss something.
Yesterday at 4:47pm · Like · 1
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Ron Goodman Still haven't managed to demonstrate the nexus (Don Benton word-of-the-year) between "I like David Madore" and "Good Governance." It was a non-sequitur then; it still is. One of the best demonstrations I've seen of non-rational discourse; right next to drawing a relationship from "I like Jello" to "Good Governance."
Yesterday at 4:47pm · Like · 1
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Nick Ruark So far, I haven't seen much of anything posted by David Standal worth having a discussion about but, I'm happy to see he thinks Don Benton is a 'punk'.
Yesterday at 4:53pm · Like
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Bill Baumann I thought we were better than this. Standal is a stand up guy, even if he does like madore.
Yesterday at 4:56pm · Like · 1
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Chuck Green This discussion thread gives me a good opportunity, as an administrator, to remind everyone of our mission and to check out the Standards of Engagement shown in the "About" section of our group. We do encourage open discourse but we also encourage keeping focused on our mission. I've seen a number of questions asked that have not been answered. And the original topic of this thread was about one of the very reasons this group exists. I do request that perhaps we refrain from using "troll" and other name calling in these discussions. If someone has an issue with someone else perhaps being a troll, as noted in the Standards of Engagement, please contact an administrator. Also, if you post a thread that obviously opens up a passionate discussion, please be prepared to present facts and links that back up your statements and also be prepared to respond to questions. If you don't want to be put into a position to have to respond to questions, then don't make the post in the first place. "This is the Public Facebook page for Clark County Citizens for Good Governance (C3G2). The C3G2 Facebook page is open to any citizen interested in or wishing to engage in public discourse on issues involving Clark County governments and elected officials.
Our members are of a wide variety of political interests and affiliations, right, left and center, as well as those who are independent.
OUR MISSION AND VISION STATEMENT
C3G2's mission is to:
• Raise public awareness
• Monitor government activities
• Promote citizen involvement
• Encourage the stewardship of human and environmental resources.
C3G2 envisions a future where elected and non-elected representatives at all levels of government embrace the highest ethical standards and best practices possible at every opportunity in the delivery of governance."
Yesterday at 4:56pm · Like · 1
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Chuck Green And one more thing - I have David Madore and Robert Dean as FB friends on my personal page. Doesn't mean I agree with what they say or associate with them, but they do have a right to their opinion and yes, it sometimes leads to a debate where I need to agree to disagree and move on.
Yesterday at 5:01pm · Like · 4
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For example, Steve Lappier wrongly calls Standahl a liar, claiming that:
"David - They're were not going to build a bridge "just to get light rail to Vancouver." Part of the federal funding required that. Your statement is false."Besides the shear ignorance of that statement: Federal law had no such requirement of any kind and the entirety of the CRC Scam was nothing BUT a loot rail project according to the Oregon Supreme Court, which David pointed that out with the proof of the Willamette Week article... Lappier only failed to respond.
He didn't modify his position. He didn't acknowledge Standahl's proof that he, Lappier, was flat wrong and no one else came to David's defense over that issue.
Everyone who trashed David in the thread, Standahl OR Madore, is well aware of what Chuck Green ONCE AGAIN "reminded them" of. But one wonders: when they "forget" what the page is SUPPOSED to be there for, what happens to them?
Do they get banned? Do they get called out, other than a rather nebulous restatement of what they already knew but ignore as a matter of course?
Of course not.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Don't misunderstand me: they have every right to be a fringe-left nutjob group of haters. Freedom of speech is not an arcane concept to me, a blogger with over 5000 posts over the past several years.
The basic dishonesty of their page, however, is clear. The ONLY people they're looking at are Madore, Mielke and Benton. None of the three of them have EVER done anything right of any kind, if this page is to be believed, because this page has never acknowledged anything that HAS gone right.
This is not about good governance, it's about partisan governance. And it's unfortunate that these people lack the integrity to admit it.
1 comment:
Their pettiness is equally ridiculous.
How does worrying and discussing whether or not Madore has a sprayed on tan concern any sort of governance?
WHO CARES????
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